Three problems with the, otherwise very interesting, Aigo MID. 1) Its not available without import (although it seems DFJ are doing a good job exporting it around the world.) 2) It hasn’t got 3G built-in. 3) The software is a little bit….mmm…beta?
Problem 3 can be solved by hacking the existing OS (see this huge ‘Hacking the Aigo’ thread in the forum) or by installing XP. I’m hearing from a number of sources that XP drivers are starting to filter through and that a release could be available as early as next week. This video was posted on YouTube yesterday.
I had a quick chat with JKK before posting this and found out that he’s working on this too. Keep a look out on his site for a video His video is up now. My Aigo has been held up in customs but is due to arrive on Tuesday next week.
Thanks for the video tip, Brook.
what is it with everybody and trying to run XP on these small devices!!!
XP or Vista are DESKTOP operating systems, like Mac OS X Leopard and also Ubuntu etc.
for these small devices it’s vital to chose a totally different approach. an UI that is finger/touch friendly! why the hell would Apple want to install the full OS X on an iphone??
these devices are made to be used with fingers and so big icons are needed. it’s a joke why everybody needs a stylus to click on the tiny menu in XP.
is it really so difficult to see why apple has this huge success with the iphone?? this is the way to go, if you need a stylus to click on windows system information in the menu accessories of XP…then you’re totally wrong!
I think you’ve confused two things OS and UI :)
Many of us wants a FULL OS with us in our pocket as it offers the least (or no depending upon your needs) compromise.
As for the UI I fully agree, but I also firmly believe that there will be UI solutions out there in the near future if these devices start taking off, just like there is a number of UIs for using a PC as a carputer, “they” have several UIs ready for one finger usage.
Very true on the success, that’s ALL about UI, not the OS so much, if you watch JKKs video with the EEE 900 touch screen you’ll see how he’s using FF3 and that for instance has a number of nice options that is one step in the right direction on this.
..basically i think this is the biggest problem of software developers because the people are not ready to be open and flexible. too much microsoft is hard coded in 95% of the population… why does intel and linux developers have those problems? because they don’t have resources to focus on interfaces that are NOT like XP or vista. instead of focussing on linux drivers, the producers focus on creating drivers for XP… this is a joke. THAT is why MIDs are not really moving on, netbooks are the consequence…just boring XP machines…
This is hackers/moders that are focusing on these drivers. The whole lack of XP drivers is a political one from my perception, as MS would not want to have XP on a touchscreen device, rather they’d want to see Tablet XP on it.
The reason is, reliability, maturity and confidence.
There simply is no other option out there apart from XP if you want a mature and stable system for productivity apps and drivers. Menus, icons and buttons can, on the whole, be enlarged quite nicely and with Firefox’s nice zooming features, its great. There are even overlay packages that can be used. Bot perfect, but certainly not bad. With XP, you’re also dealing with one version of the OS. When you deal with linux, you’re dealing with hundreds of differenct builds and versions.
I agree, a better OS would be good, but there isn’t one and that’s why you see people looking to XP.
Steve.
yeah, you said it! there are hundreds of different OSes out there, why would we always want to use this extremely old OS which is definitely not built for these devices. i don’t understand why we do not move forward. we should push on moblin and test them to give feedback to developers to improve, by jumping into XP we won’t help the development of MIDs.
anyway, looking at the video of the AIGO the only thing that came to my mind was:
no way! looks like an old plastic toy with that childish green/blue OS…and like those old pocket pcs where you need a stylus. that’s – in my opinion – a joke. and so the MIDs are history before they actually had a presence. the future is iphone and alikes.
the benq MID won for a reason the design of UI. we nee quick access to media/internet/IM etc with fingers and it needs to look nice. XP does NOT offer that.
the OS does not have to be better, but MADE for the device.
Well one of the reasons I prefer winXP/vista over other OS (Linux, OSX, etc) is simply because anything else has a learning curve and sometime steep learning curve, and most people are pretty busy with their daily activities and do not have the luxury to spend time in learning them (even if they want to, like me). Many of us buy these devices to make things easier, quicker and mobile for us, not add hardship.
Besides that there is always a problem with compatibility between devices using different OS things don’t match like the software, drivers, file types, syncing etc. One can find alternatives, but not the same thing every time.
I am not against or for any OS, it is just that prefer using the same OS across all my computer devices, be it windows, Linux or OSX
Simply putting it, devices should make things easier for me not pause my work due to a new OS
See Karma covered it so much better than I am able to :)
Ease of use.
Compatibility.
Familiarity.
Really there are hundreds of OS’? Can you tell me the first 101 different OS’? :)
Look at it this way, how much interest or serious consideration for getting an iPhone was there when (if) there wasn’t ANY apps available beyond what’s in the OS, kind of where the iPhone or G1 was/is at first, now after those mature (meaning 3rd party support grows) obviously it’s a different story. Yes there’s hundreds or what thousands of apps for the iPhone now? But how many are there once you remove all the flashlight and “where-is-my-buddy” type of apps??
Again don’t confuse the OS with UI, for your information there’s a number of “iPhone knock off” UIs out there for PPC and WM after the iPhone was released, my point? That it’s not a need OS that’s needed but a UI! PLEASE DON’T CONFUSE THE TWO!
Meaning it would be the UI that is different not the OS, as much as I (actually hate) dislike XP, it is just like Chippy says, its one of the most versatile OS out there, I wouldn’t dare to use the term “stable” about XP though :)
I personally think this is awesome, hopefully it will be available soon. I also hope it has at least decent battery life.
heh..
it’s our turn now to hack xp to linux dvices ;)
..send form aigo mid with xp and 3g
..and loving it!
I have been playing with XP on the Aigo for several weeks, without the necessary drivers of course. It amazes me just how responsive XP is on this hardware. I cannot wait to have full functionality.
Well one of the reasons I prefer winXP/vista over other OS (Linux, OSX, etc) is simply because anything else has a learning curve and sometime steep learning curve, and most people are pretty busy with their daily activities and do not have the luxury to spend time in learning them (even if they want to, like me). Many of us buy these devices to make things easier, quicker and mobile for us, not add hardship.
Besides that there is always a problem with compatibility between devices using different OS things don’t match like the software, drivers, file types, syncing etc. One can find alternatives, but not the same thing every time.
I am not against or for any OS, it is just that prefer using the same OS across all my computer devices, be it windows, Linux or OSX
Simply putting it, devices should make things easier for me not pause my work due to a new OS
Cool! I installed XP on the Compal JAX10 I have (which, I believe, is pretty close to identical to the Aigo device). The OS itself actually runs really well on there. But the problem is drivers. No network/wifi, no touchscreen, and no display driver. Those are the basics, and if we can get those, that would rock.
Because I haven’t had a working OS on the Compal since 30 minutes after I got it, when I messed up the default OS, and started trying to get various Linux-based distros installed on it (which I haven’t been successful with yet). :-)
I hear that you can look forward to everything working within a week. Including Wifi, touch and display!
S.
How many weeks long will this “withing a week” last? :) no offense to Chippy but we’ve heard this before about a month ago…
“Software is a little bit beta” ??? :)
Guys, I’ve had this device for several months now, and I’ve not seen any updates for the OS – that are available from Aigo’s website – for this device yet. I’ve seen several hacks, but nothing solid.
I’d put Windows XP on it, but I’m not sure if it has enough room to adequately run it, and without drivers, it’s a bit of a pain.
I’d not mind doing some reverse engineering research on how they get their devices turned on/off, but I’m not sure how much good it will do yet, as I don’t know what the market penetration of this device is.
Is there a large enough demand for such a thing?
Isn’t all MS OS’ a little BETA? The newer the more Beta :) Hey they should just call it “Windows BETA” :) ok enough of that or I’ll get killed on here…
I should also add:
Paying $700 for a device that is advertised as being able to do 3G (HSDPA), and GPS … and finding out that it’s incapable of doing either … is VERY disappointing.
There’s no 3G included in the device.
And GPS doesn’t work without an external antenna. When you finally get GPS enabled, it says “ANT=SHORT” which disables its ability to get a fix on a satellite.
The manufacturers from Compal say “it’s because the satellites are not recognized in your area of the world” but I have confirmed with the manufacturers of the GPS chip that this is bogus information.
Anyone have any luck getting GPS working?
Who is claiming that the Aigo has 3G in it?
MID running crippled Linux is designed to fail. However, if it can run XP, it’s gonna to boom. It is a very simple thing. Why Intel ignored this fact is beyond me.
What exactly did Intel ignore and how? Care to explain??
Do you actually READ the blog or no??
Xin,
May I ask you why you are so keen on criticizing this/these device(s) so deeply?
You don’t take any pride in the origin of them at all or?
I think this is an opportunity for people like Chippy and JK to begin to put together a list of XP tweeks you can do to the system to make it work best on these small screens. (Font changes, icon changes,and widgets that might make XP work better on 5″ – 8″ screens.) Which browser would be best? Which email program? Maybe there could be two different specs. One for finger touch and one for stylus. The list of tweeks could be kept on this wonderful site and added to as new software arrives? People are going to put XP on these new MIDs and doing the research now to modify XP to be optimised for the small screens would be a great help. Just a thought.
Ironically you don’t hear these types of complaints around the OQO, and the OQO you will NEVER be able to use without a stylus…
Intel arent ignoring anything. They do what their customers want. That’s why they’ve always said they will be responsible for Linux and XP drivers if customers (not end customers) want them.
Linux is moving forward but it’s a slow slow process. Moblin is coming together slowly as is Limo and Android.
There’s 14 months before XP finaly disapears. Its fairly simple for OEMs. If a decent linux build, stable and customer-ready isn’t available, they won’t waste their time messing about. They will simply move to something else.
In my opinion, the next 12 months are the biggest opportunity that Linux has ever had to get into the consumer market. I hope the distribution builders and software developers pull together to make it happen otherwise they lose a huge opportunity.
But, in the meantime, at least we have a good platform for Firefox which is, lets face it, THE most important thing. If that’s working, we’re more than half way there.
Anyone wondered what it would be like to have Firefox only? I guess Kevin Tofel (jkontherun.com) could tell us (he did 3 months with OS+Firefox.)
Steve.
Not to mention the appeal it has for OEMers to be able to market/sell a product at lower cost as there is no MS license to pay! There’s been a lot of talk lately as to how MS is going to be able to compete against…FREE.
Chippy do you have a link to this three months with OS+FF?
Maybe these ideas and the G1 with Android are now steps in the direction that I have been predicting now for a couple of years (or so) that our devices in our pockets will be merely “dummy terminals” to some OS or/and APPs in the cloud?
Who knows where this Android thing will take us. I mean how many of us would really care that our device in our pocket isn’t really running ANY OS (as we know them today) but some core system from bios, and all the rest is just a graphical UI, but all things we’re used to doing (lets say on XP) is “there” to be had, when we “install” an XP program, nothing would actually be installing to our physical device, but we’d be remotely doing so in a cloud, yes the popular term cloud :)
I guess you could still end up with this :)
http://www.jkontherun.com/2008/10/uh-oh-the-cloud.html
If Intel did not ignore the XP drivers, we should already have them now other than waiting for at least another week.
The matter is not about how much better Linux will be (it is already good enough), it is about whether major software will be ported to Linux? MS Office, Photoshop, Quicken, Quickbooks, Autocad… and many professional programs such as ExpressPCB, Endicia (Dazzle)… Yes I know the alternatives such as Open Office, QCad… It is a pain to import/export native Windows files.
Yes, it is lucky to have firefox on Linux, but people need more than just that.
There are lots of devices for which Intel can’t write drivers – the parts that Intel doesn’t make. The touch screen, wifi adapter, etc. Drivers have to be written by the company that manufactures the part. Intel doesn’t make all of the parts. So we, the community, are dependent on other companies, too, for drivers.
Josh the main things missing are the chipset and graphics !!!
THEY ARE FROM INTEL
other stuff would be easy to get running…
OK, what chipset and graphics does the device use? They’re pretty standard, no? Have the existing reference drivers been tried?
Josh see the top few threads here:
http://www.umpcportal.com/modules/newbb/viewforum.php?forum=31
..and here:
http://www.midwiki.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=53
…and here:
http://forum.pocketables.net/forumdisplay.php?f=65
P.S. Sorry for the multiple post it’s just that multiple links in one post might have an issue :) let’s not tell the $pammers everything :)
uuuh…
pretty standard??? no
Chipset:
http://ark.intel.com/chipset.aspx?familyID=35449
And Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 500
shouldn’t you know this?
Hehe Josh yeah shouldn’t WE be the ones asking YOU this (after a quick Google I noticed the reversed positions here :))
Heh. :-) Yes, I work for Intel. No, I’m not speaking officially for them here, but my group, Intel Software Network, is Intel’s developer community, which doesn’t have anything to do with hardware or drivers. But Chippy is a friend. :-)
If there’s anything I can do to help, I will, but you guys pay closer attention to specifics of what devices have what components, so that’s why I was asking you. :-)
I figured as much, Intel is a little more than an LLC :)
But yeah it was just a tad ironic…
As already pointed out your barking up the wrong tree, not to mention the MS politics involved, are you even reading replies to your comments Fixup??
What does Linux now have to do with this XP driver topic!?
We’ve all tried to explain to you why the device(s) come with Linux and the XP driver situation, are you even interested in FACTS or are the facts just confusing you?
ExpressPCB has been on the scene for a decade or so while Endicia is slightly younger with some seven years of history, while these are somewhat well known in their respective categories I don’t know if I would go as far as comparing them to other large 3rd party SW suppliers that are not supporting Linux. On that note btw Endicia does have a MAC version unlike its competitor Stamps.com so, and unlike much larger companies such as UPS!
“It is lucky to have Firefox on Linux”? Can you translate please?
Fixup may I ask you do you even have a MID or even used one?
As you really asked for it, I don’t talk to mad dogs.
Does this mean I should ignore your comments as most others on here are doing and have hinted to me I should? :)
I mean reading your comments, I think it’s quite obvious who would fit the MAD dog description, btw is that MAD from the UK or US dictionary? I’ll agree to be the UK version ok? ;)
Hey FiXup,
You know there is an expression in English that goes “It isn’t rocket science” :)
As long as Chippy, Jkkmobile… read my posts and reply, why should I care whoever else?
I’m not wasting my time here, I want to send some loud and clear suggestions to the big players such as Intel and MS.
Glad that Intel has listened and is going to the right direction by providing MID drivers and smartphone-friendly X86 chips.
Now, only if MS also listen and add smartphone support into XP and don’t force people to drop XP and go Vista. Until then, we have to carry 2 or more devices other than just one. Treo (Handspring) revolutionized the integration of phone and PDA, now we need the revolution of phone + computer + GPS + Camera… Until then, for now an Aigo running XP + a smartphone + a EEE PC 900HA is good enough.
Xin,
How do you know that Intel or MS is listening? :)
BTW Handspring started in 1998, by then NOKIA was already on their THIRD vesion of their Communicator which started in 1996, so what exactly did Treo/Handspring revolutionize??
Xp is great even video using GomPlayer is easy less than 40% of system was used while I watched a movie. Web Browser was great, even HULU.com played well, and all without xp drivers, I found a sound driver and it does work, the wifi was a usb attached to a mouse and a 32gb USB stick, this will be even better when all the drivers are installed, but the limited space will be an issue, i found all kinds of tweaks to trim down XP, all the language packs, temp files. It would be helpful if someone would start a list of tweaks for the device, any takers?
There’s a few threads and even websites dedicated to this already.
Is this what you want?
http://jkkmobile.blogspot.com/2008/10/yeah-click-here-to-see-more-steps.html
I think there could be a real market out there for optimizing XP or even Vista to work on these small screens. A complete solution would not only yank out the bloat from the system but then also tweek it to display best on the small screens and then suggest software like Opera or Pegasus and other widgets that make XP /Vista bearable on these small screens.
Small is coming and Microsoft doesnt seem interested in address these issues. This community can put together ideas that get around the MS limitations but ya need to do it in a manner that a mear mortal can understand. JK article is a start but only a small one. Id love to see a full, optimised install documented. I would think you could actually sell the pamphlet on how to do it.
The thing is there hasn’t really been any devices with XP with the need of a custom UI up to now, since the only one really the OQO never had a touch screen that you could use without a special stylus.
However there is a community the carputer one that has a lot interest into such custom UI layers on Windows (and other OS’) here is one example (not cheap!)
http://www.fluxmedia.net/
Battery!
Does anyone know how many hours of usage can one expect from this device, anything less than 5 is a not going to be productive.
Is there going to be any significant difference in battery life between the native OS(pre-installed linux distro) and hacked WinXP?
The Aigo MID as such is in the range of 3hrs (right?), most likely you can tweak things more easily under XP to maximize the battery life time. Yet another bonus of XP :)
you asked for facts and links from others, now i’m not quite sure that your assumption is based on…facts. battery life is not a matter of tweaks but how power management is handled by the OS. if you need to tweak an OS to get most out of it, then the power management is plain crap. by the way, in ubuntu i do have several minutes more battery life with ANY type of setting i chose compared to vista. power management in XP is pre-historic unless you use other apps or tools.
again… why would you want to run professional tools like autocad or whatever on these devices? apart from being totally underpowered… you need optical zoom glasses to actually see something… come on guys, these devices are upgraded smartphones/pmps… not full blown computers with high performance hardware. the everun note is already amazing but to cram that power into such a small device… smaller is not possible.
but still, i think with XP the market is going into the wrong direction. as soon as there’s no support from MS anymore, everybody will sit here and cry and wait for linux and open source in general to help them out. how ironic…
That’s why I am ASKING (not the “right?” :)) since I haven’t the possibility to use my MID yet on a regular basis with one and the same OS I don’t have accurate numbers, but I must say since none of these pocketable devices (excluding PDAs and smartphones) run any battery time that in my opin is acceptable. I feel it is a MUST to use any tweaks needed to maximize the time your battery lasts, this has almost become a default practice among EEE users for instance to use a prg to tweak pros speed.
I never talked about running autoCAD on any of these devices? But surely other things for instance I’d love to have UPS worldship on it, so as to be able to access everything to our UPS account with it.
Fab,
I think you are missing the mark here. There is a lot you can do on these small screens. Autocad and photoshop may not make much sense but there is a whole lot of computing people want to do that involves more than just web browsing orlistening to music. Whether it is playing Winds of War on the bus on the way to work or a real estate agent wanting to use his MLS software to search for listings or my desire to acess a FileMaker database on a handheld. These can all be done on a small screen for short periods of time. But for these I do need the full XP.:(
Yeah I agree fully :)
I am confused I thought I was promoting the idea of having XP on this device, but now you are? :)
@jmoriarty Exactly. If it doesn’t exist, I’m going to write it. (see the comments here for an example: http://tinyurl.com/6nhjyb) :-)
This devices seems to be excellent but with few shot comings
Few things which will make this device close to perfect
Wish List
1) mouse pointer (something similar to optical device like in everun)next to the screen instead of the “smart button”
2) Larger hard disk (HDD/SSD) at least 30GB.
3) Larger battery pack for longer hrs, preferable 7-8hrs.
4) 3G connectivity
5) Auto rotate function for the screen
6) Option to choose between a pre-installed winXP and Linux
To all the “God, why XP?” ppl:
XP is proven. XP has support. XP just works.
Every time a new little device comes out, with its own little OS, I gotta go looking for all the apps to do what I want. A good MP3 player, word processor, IM client, IRC client, console emulators, etc. I’ve been through all this before when I first got a Windows Mobile device, and then when I got an iPhone.
When I find there’s an app to do what I want available, there is always a compromise. There’s something they don’t do quite right, or a known bug. And with such a small audience on each little device, with its own OS, the developers aren’t really inclined to fix/improve them right away, if ever. The same goes for the web browsers these devices come with. I’m honestly quite sick of it.
The thing is, why reinvent the wheel?! All the apps I want, that do everything I want them to, the way I want, not to mention fully functional web browers, are already on XP! Why should I wait for some developer someone out there do get them working on whatever new OS has the hype this month? (Android? Moblin? :p)
Why get these awesome little devices working, then get tortured waiting for them to get a new OS working, with its own apps? We already have an OS that works with great apps. They’re going about it the wrong way. Get these guys working with XP, ASAP.
While I don’t agree that XP is the ultimate OS as such, I do agree that it is what it is and we all know it and you can get just about any prg for it, and that’s what counts yes!
XP as such is on it’s deathbed though that’s obvious. MS could recycle it under another name and with some graphical tweaks though :)
Plasmadis: well said.
I understand they want to avoid the high XP fee by installing Linus as default, but if XP drivers are not provided, like what Intel did for the Aigo, it is simply 100% foolish and no excuse.
Xin,
What exactly is it that “Intel did for the Aigo”???
Intel isn’t marketing/selling the Aigo (or any other MID for that matter)!? So what is it Intel DID??
Secondly even if you want to say “AIGO did”, not Aigo, not Intel not no one is selling this MID with XP at this point, the ones that do come with Windows obviously work with Windows out of the box. So what is it that they did that is “simply 100% foolish and no excuse.”??? PLEASE EXPLAIN!
Again you seem to take NO pride in the Aigo and where it’s made? Correct?
Alternative operating systems have fundamental weaknesses on the supply and support side. OS X is not available at all. Linux offerings are numerous but none of them ever seem to do everything the end user wants (lacking driver support) and even the basics aren’t finished (audio system, power saving (without users tweaking it themselves)). Using linux generally requires technical know-how and time investments to set it up if the system isn’t tailor made for a specific well-defined task.
With MIDs that could just happen, but there’s no distro out there that will work out-of-the-box with the new devices. Their default linux systems will always leave the linux crowd wanting (“wrong distro” being among the most common trouble shooting advice) and Windows users could be turned away by idiosyncrasies.
There’s nothing in the linux developer world driving it to new devices as soon as possible, only individuals that might eventually build up support on their own pace due to their *own* needs to have it done. I applaud Intel’s interest in linux, but that alone is not enough.
I wonder if Google’s Android might be the answer. Google is certainly big enough to shepard and guide their open operating system and due to the volume of sales will certainly attract lots of App Developers. Also they are not limited in sight to just phones. BMW may come out with an Android I-Drive next year and I may have read in these pages that a computer company is considering Android for a laptop and desktop computer.
Don’t hold your breath on google. Once it gets as big as MS, it can easily limit your access to google services only.
The only hope is for Democrats to take over the power and separate MS into pieces. Clinton wanted to do that, but Bush stopped it. Monopoly is the thing. If MS was cut into smaller pieces, it won’t be so ignorant to force manufacturers to drop XP and install the Vista crap.
Xin,
It sounds like you’re no stranger to extensive government involvement. :)