OQO, Everun, Viliv. You guys knew there was a desire out there for a true Pocket PC but alas, it was too small for you to survive on. So what do we do now?
A customer came to me last week and asked about the Benq S6. Remember that one? We started writing about it in Jan 2008 and by mid 2009, there wasn’t much to be heard from it anymore. A version with XP was selling for a bargain basement price in Italy, if I recall correctly, but that was it.
So what if you want a 5 inch screen PC today?
Those of you who might be asking ‘why not go Android’ need to know that this customer has his reasons. There are hundreds more too. Compatibility, flexibility, software, USB, server, etc etc etc. This customer knows he won’t get 10hrs battery life; the ‘PC’ part is more important. Here’s a summary of what I got from the customer, Maher, who is located in Canada.
- I want 5 inch windows OS ( xp or windows7) no Android at all.
- I have seen one model in Aliexpress,it look very promising ( impc umpc 5inch xp windows 5.6” ultra mobile PC Mini Tablet PC Pocket PC Mini Laptop with Windows XP/X86/1GHz CPU/1GB Memory/16GB HDD/WiFi/RJ 45/USB2.0/Camera/Office..if you can look at it and tell me what you think?
- price 300 to 350+_.
- windows OS allow me to surf the net and watch Arabic TV as well permits me to open/see/read some documents in Arabic languages.
Let’s be honest now though, there aren’t any mainstream choice today. What you’ll find is ex-stock although immediately I want to say ‘Viliv S5.’ It was a peach of a device and worth stretching your budget for. If a $300 to $350 price point is strict though, you’re going to have to look around on Ebay or other 2nd-hand sales sites.
Try and stick with XP rather than a Moblin Linux build if you want to retain full flexibility.
So what if you can get hold of a BenQ S6 with 3G and Windows XP for under $350? The battery life isn’t good, I can tell you that much and with the 800Mhz Atom, the performance will be less than some of the new tablets. The Dell Streak 5, for example, is probably more powerful. I’m reluctant to say ‘go for it’ on the Benq S6.
Look for these in the secondhand market:
- Viliv S5
- UMID Mbook / BZ
- 7 inch Q1 Ultra (for a larger choice.)
As for a new purchase, I took a look at the MiPC referenced above. It’s also a few years old but I have to admit, it’s well-stocked with ports and therefore, flexibility. You’ll have to re-install Windows XP to get your required language but it shouldn’t be too difficult. The VIA C7 at 1Ghz is a little more powerful than Atom at 800Mhz but battery life could be worse. Don’t expect much more than 2.5hrs under use. It’s likely to get warm too. I recall the C7-based Wibrain B1 and the Q1b that I had. Both were usable devices. If the build quality is OK on the MiPC and if it includes a mouse pointer on the frame (always a great feature for a WIndows tablet) it could be worth it.
But for the ultimate pocket PC, don’t forget the Viliv S5. Keep looking on Ebay and in forums! Anyone here want to sell theirs?
Do u have any info on this magic w3 ? interested to buy one . your advice ?
It doesn’t seem to have a mouse and the specs are similar to the S5. The people who have the S5 already should stay with it.
Right now, the S5 and N5 (for people, like me, who need a mouse and keyboard) are the best available.
I’m still hoping a company will continue the pocket PC category. A slider would be great.
The S5 and N5 are the best 5 inch UMPCs currently available. I have the N5 and it’s great. Of course I wouldn’t mind an upgrade: Oak Trail, more sensitive touch screen, video out, USB 3.0, Bluetooth 3.0 and a more thumb friendly keyboard.
It amazes me how few devices get an internal upgrade. Maybe a new design is the best way to get existing owners to upgrade!
I got an N5 last Fall with the intent of getting a refreshed model by the end of this year. Too bad those plans are out the window now. People like us are just too few to be able to sustain a company.
Maybe Fujitsu will come through for us 5 inch UMPC fans. They’re coming out with a 4 inch UMPC/phone so why not a 5 inch UMPC too?
@lonnie
Seriously, there’s apparently a market for 4 inch phones that can boot into Windows and have a 2.5 hour battery life but not a 5 inch UMPC with no phone and has 5-6 hours of battery.
I won’t go any smaller nor larger than 5 inches for my UMPCs but I guess Fujitsu must have done their market research on what sells. Oh well, it’s only available in Japan anyway so it’s not like I could easily get it if I wanted to.
For me best umpc has Everun (Raon Digital) ans S5 after…
Everun was one of my favorites too. Have an old broken one here.
Maybe u want to sell urs?
Responding to Chippy’s question [re availability of any of these oldies for sale….], I still have the following available, all in perfect condition:
UMID M1 Black [Dynamism]32GB, no 3G, WinXP Home
Spare battery [unused], leather case, mini USB-USB adaptor, car charger, headset adaptor, strap, mains charger, docs, CD
OQO 2e 80GB HD, no 3G, Vista Bus
Docs, CD, Docking station [DVD], 2xsingle capacity batteries [working], 1xdouble capacity battery [working], exec Case, Piel Frama leather case, 3xmains adaptors, several long power supply cables, short power supply cable, car charger, 2xdigital pen styli with spare tips, 3xscreen protectors, 2xVGA/ethernet adaptors, 2xstand alone battery charging adaptors, HDMI to female DVI adaptor PLUS a non-booting OQO 2e [great for spares or repair – absolutely immaculate but error message apparently suggests a motherboard problem]. 64GB SSD, no 3G, WinXP Home, sunlight screen. Bought just before OQO went down so no repair attempted.
It’ll be hard, but if anyone is seriously interested I’ll be happy to let these go – finally!
Thanks Phil
I may be interested in the defunct one (I would like to try the SSD)
How can I contact you?
I just sold my Viliv S5 for that amount shipped to the UK (like new!) I think the S5 is the best 5″ x86 still & in $200-300 used
hi there
i was desesperately hoping that viliv would throw out a viliv s6 ou n6 or so what…i mean a killing device with windows (quickly replacable by an ubuntu)…
by the way you forgot the Fujitsu U820, which i consider the best form factor for an umpc with keyboard
I loved the u820. Have even got one here for sale but I as it has dock and ssd I was looking for more than $350. Come to think of it, I’m sure someone was interested in buying recently. Oops! Time to check emails.
I’ll part with my Viliv S5 when someone pries it from my cold, dead hands !
It’s a keeper. Lets hope, hope that something better comes along. Oaktrail+Windows8?
I’m still using my 2 years old UMID M1 as my only PC.
OK, I sometimes take my wife’s netbook when I really need a larger screen. And I’m using a laptop at work.
But the M1 is my only “personal” computer. And after 2 years of heavy use, it’s still in good condition, and the battery life is still correct (4 hours wifi on).
Obviously I couldn’t replace it by a tablet. Or I would need a tablet AND a netbook.
If I had waited one more year I would probably have chosen the Viliv N5.
But since that time, nothing :(
Maybe next year with Windows 8?
Just want to say THANKS for all the feedback here. These CCC article are fun and challenging. They will continue!
Chippy
CCC stands for?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CCC
It needs to added to the wiki!
I am still stupid enough to not know what you mean by CCC?
Chippys Customer Challenge
I have Wibrain B1 SJ in professional configuration
– SSD 32GB
– Windows XP Professional bought separately
– dock (bought recently – still 2 years waranty)
It has 12V power input – perferct for in car use.
I used it only indoor. It is in pefrect condition – in “collector’s shape”.
It is perfectly usable as main PC with external monitor and keyboard.
As UMPC enthusiast I would love to exchange it for Fujitsu U820 or U900 etc. Just to get experience with the form factor of the Fuji.
Chippy or anybody else let me know about offer of your Fuji.
That’s the VIA version right? I have one of those. Design was ugly but very very functional.
Windows7 Phone in Japan available:
http://liliputing.com/2011/07/fujitsus-windows-7-phone-launches-this-weekend-in-japan.html
Yeah and I like the idea/concept (but not fond of Symbian) but this device isn’t as great as it might seem…
http://www.pocketables.net/2011/05/fujitsu-loox-f-07c-windows-7symbian-phone-gets-official.html
Conics is offering the Fujitsu mega-phone for £1,580 !!!!!!!
I can’t quite see how that’s justified. Seriously.
Hi all,
I don’t know if I’m out of the subject but I finally let my hope to find a good 5 inches clamshell device with windows went down because of a heavy price.
I wwant portability and power, and that’s not possible now. Althought I would have sell my grand mother to buy a N5… But 700 euros (no second hand) ? Too expensive for what you can do.
So I bought a Vaio Z, a huge 13 inches laptop, with both things I wanted. I can do everythinhg with a 1,7kg device.
What about Tegra 3 and Kal-el device ?
Thanks for your work Chippy !
That Tegra 3 and Kal-el device will likely have a cost similar to the N5 but do significantly less. Many of the ARM based tablets seem to have a very high cost to usefulness ratio.
Tegra 3 (aka Kal-El), will likely not be cheap when it first comes out but it’ll be quad core and overall raw performance should actually start rivaling Intel ATOM CPU performance.
These next gen ARM systems are going to be game changers as far as changing the traditional role ARM solutions have been limited to up till now.
Graphically next gen ARM systems are already starting to rival modern gaming consoles. It’s just a question of what they support. Since most mobile GPU’s don’t support the same range as the GPU’s used in x86 systems.
So there is a difference between performance and what can actually be run but the Tegra 3 is suppose to be compatible with the upcoming Windows 8. So should support the full range.
More immediately, the Tegra 3 systems may start being offered with Linux operating systems or we can install them ourselves for more options.
So may be a workaround until we get better options, hopefully next year…
I agree, all the current ARM devices cost too much for what they can do. They could have 8 cores and they still won’t render many webpages correctly or let you do much of anything. They may a year from now but I don’t buy based on what a future product may be able to do.
All in all I still feel the OQO 02 was the best UMPC by design and form factor, but yes it had serious problems and annoyances in real life. Just wish someone made a half as thick modern one :)
Indeed, an OQO 2 design with Oaktrail and possibly a better redesigned keyboard would be great (It seems a bit cramped to me, needs to be more ergonomic)
If someone just could give the Oqo 02 1 o 3 Gb of ram extra it would still be the best UMPC. No other design have beated it (it´s smaller than the S5 but it has a fisical keyboard) and the battery lifi is (with the double capacity battery) arround 4 or 5 hrs in real usage scenario.
Go for the one Phil is offering or get one in e-bay.
Well the *actual* OQO 02 is not great in my opinion (and I’ve had three of them), they still get hot (though a lot less than the 01) they don’t last great on any battery and the dbl cap battery just is too heavy and bulky. Also they tend to unsolder their GPU over time (by product of the too much heat) and then you have a “black screen” OQO (been there done that too and even fixed it myself). As for keyboard the only thing I was not loving was the pointing stick, I’d prefer a del working trackball.
And needless to say I would want “traditional” capacitive touch, although in reality on a truly mobile device I frankly prefer non touch screen and great UI w/plenty of keys (i.e. my former Tmobile Sidekick love) since a small enough screen to be mobile isn’t ideal for x86 OS on a touch screen (read unto 6″ or so). Now a 7″ thin x86 as the new Viliv X70 was going to be, that’s another story and something I think *I* could see myself using, since it brings along a completely different UI experience when it’s in that size. I still hope we can see some sub 20mm thin 7″ x86 tablets (Viliv X70 v2 was to be some 14.3mm & 420g). But we will see.
My real goal back some 5+ years ago when I started out my UMPC hunt was a full x86 all day on with WWAN capability and full qwerty, this has yet to be realized :(
One more thing the Viliv S5 is great on and the OQO 02 is awful, that is leaving the thing in standby, your OQO 02 will be dead (read empty battery) within 48hours! :(
Mobileer> You are wrong on the last.
I have 2 Oqos. The one I use dayly and another that remains as a backup that stays for days in standby mode. I don[t know how long but I[ve picked it sometimes after 4 or 5 days with the standard battery and it still have remainig bat.
Hi Mobileer. Could you expand greatly on your OQO blackscreen repair? I have a unti with that problem – it would be great to be able to fix it. You can PM me if you prefer at PhilipUK. I’d be VERY grateful! Phil
The question is that there’s not an actual Oqo 02. It’s a 2007 machine and that’s the wonder about it
Hearing my name, I thought I’d share this: I got the OQO 2e out again, just to make sure the batteries are still OK [I make sure they get an hour or so use every few months, just to keep them honest. Same with the M1.] … all was well, so inspired by this thread and more than a bit of nostalgia I played around for a bit longer and applied all the anti Vista bloat tricks I’ve been learning recently in order to speed up my Slate 500 and Q550 [which are both flying now]. Shit what an incredible difference! I wish I’d known all these tweaks when my eyes were still OK for the small screen. I’ve only gone to bigger and bigger screens because of poor eyesight! I certainly never got the best out of the OQO, and would have used it a lot more if it had been this responsive. Now it’s working so very well I’d happily go back to it 80% of the time in preference to later more bulky hardware … if only!
Although Win 7 is way more responsive than Vsita perhaps I can use some ot the tricks you mentioned. Are they apliable to W7?
You should really try WIn7, Vista is like a dragnet for UMPCs! Win7 the opposite, in my experience Win7 has “felt” lighter on some UMPCs even than WinXP (which still is my favorite on UMPCs).
Everyone in this post is talking of the demise of these brands just as the ending of one of the Godfather’s movie. Let’s just for a moment look closely at the latest casualty, Viliv. It had fantastic products, pretty much niche actually. Yet the one catastrophic mistake it made was this…. let me say this before, Viliv was participant in some of the recent tech conventions to showcase its products and that was giving it exposure. But aside to the army of reviewers liking its products or not, Viliv budgeted for such events and didnt prioritise its main objective and that was the marketing of its products. Viliv should have taken some lessons from its fellow Koreans of the likes of Samsung or LG in realising that it should have marketed much more for its products rather than singularly relying on an online retailer. One has to look at the phenomenal success of HTC. Had Viliv concentrated on marketing on the European market in a big way, especially the UK, it could have seen its products in the retail outlets generating enough sales for it to keep afloat and produce more units. As if it could not draw lessons from the defunct OQO which made the same mistake as well.
All i can say at this stage is that there may be a little ray of hope for Viliv though, let’s see!!
You have some inside info?
I wont put much to it right now but it will all be down to the Viliv executives since they haven’t shown much of ‘common sense’ in their marketing approach so far. but let me say this, if Viliv fails for good, likelihood that some Chinese con picks it up to create a clone remains high but no other established manufacturer has yet reached the level of design like Viliv with the exception of the French for their ‘Exo-PC’ device. I would give it until the end of September before we can call for a ‘burial ceremony’ of Vilv unless they want it done earlier.
If Viliv are in receivership and they are selling off IP, I expect it will be expensive. If not, tell them to give me a call. Maybe we can make the first Carrypad out of the Viliv X70 Slate.
Can you be more specific on that last sentence? Do you have contacts at Viliv or are you just being hopeful?
Re Win 7 yes they apply – in fact [to be clear] the Slate 500 and the Q550 both run Win 7 … I applied the tweaks backwards to Vista on the OQO.
Also – apologies, I didn’t make the point I wanted to in that post … which was that I’m not sure the OQO actually needs more RAM if you cut down the pressure on the CPU.
To avoid derrailing this note, please let me know via PM which are these tweeks (or let me know how to contact you) I´ll be very gratefull.
Anyway, in relation to this note I´m convinced that the Oqo is still an option if you want a 5″ PC for under U$D 300.-
Even better if you can find (and afford) one of the few O2+ that were builded.
Here are some good links re faster Windows:
http://www.computingunleashed.com/speed-up-windows-7-ultimate-guide-to.html
http://www.computingunleashed.com/list-of-services-in-windows-7-that-can.html
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/Optimize-Windows-7-for-better-performance
http://webtoolsandtips.com/featured/make-windows-run-faster/
For me the best things have been: get rid of all non-wanted programmes, get rid of start-up crap, use Security Essentials as anti-virus and disable the file monitering, disable indexing, don’t use Aero and simplify the theme [black desktop background etc].
This is where I like things like tinyXP (something I got aquatinted with during the 2-4GB SSD EEE hype era :)) since it’s so tiny it’s the best Win OS I’ve used on any x86, I use it now on all my VMs :) yeah yeah I know it’s not an official version, I wish MS would make it into one! :) uses as little as 390Mb! :)
Thanks
Hi. How is it possible that isn´t mentioned my favoritest UMPC Eking M5 here ? It has an excellent display, microSD slot, stylus and battery about 3,5 – 5 hrs. With Windows XP it is perfect machine !
Perhaps it´s named as Wibrain (not the M5 model although, I think someone mentioned the B1)
Hi Chippy, can you dig deeper in to this please? It looks best for all my needs.
http://www.netbooknews.com/31306/razor-switchblade-adopts-new-1-7ghz-atom-z670-chip/
Do we have a price floating around for this yet? I estimated $1000 last time I saw it. I wast event getting the impression they would put it into production.
I mentioned the chineese E-KING M5 (yes – that was Wibrain some years ago) :
http://www.eng.mobilator.pl/mid-umpc–eking-m5-hsdpa-32gb-produkt-397.html#6
It is really great machine !
Well you can all blame me for the alleged demise of Viliv thusly: first an Everun which developed a faulty screen, replaced that with a second Everun which I still use and would not part with…then an OQO 02 which quickly developed a bad motherboard and was sold on ebay for parts; then a second OQO 02 which developed stress cracks around the screen which I gave to my wife to use, then another OQO 02 which was ok but sold on ebay before it developed any problems, then another OQO 02 which I put Leopard OS on a second partition then sold it on ebay. Whew. The problem with the OQO 02 was the fan noise and heat. The heat on all of them made it useless as a handheld. After maybe 60 minutes each and every one of them would be too hot to hold. Then a couple of the batteries started to expand and I just gave up on the OQO. Nice form factor but the Edsel of UMPCs. Then came the Viliv S5! Yay. Love that dude, especially with the small bluetooth mouse I got on ebay. Stays cool, battery lasts forever, resumes from sleep instantly, 128GB SSD, 3G, GPS. Last, a Viliv S7 for my daughter and one for my wife for use around the house. So my track record for putting these UMPC companies out of business is that I’m batting 1.000, a perfect 3 for 3. I guess, like Chippy, the trusty Everun is just too much of a classic to give up on. The four OQOs proved why the company didn’t last. They practically melted during use. Pitiful. Every time I turned one on I thought it might be the last time. Just couldn’t trust them. The Vilivs are solid in every way. But limiting themselves to one on line dealer in the US was foolish, IMHO. It would be nice if the company was resurrected from the ashes. We can only hope.
Can´t you see a buisness there?
You can earn money from companies that don´t want you to buy their products or that want you to buy competitor´s ones
Yes, I was thinking of giving Jobs a call. Actually my track record is even more perfect than just UMPC. How about a Sony Betamax, three, yes THREE, Sony DAT machines, a few laser disc machines……..ah the urge to be cutting edge certainly has a price. And lets not forget 8 track tapes. And reel to reel. At least I didn’t kill Sony, Pioneer, Tandberg, Aiwa and a few others. But unlike the OQO 02 all of those were quality items that never caught on with the public. The OQOs were killed by high prices and low quality.
So, anybody got Jobs’ phone number?
I bought the S5 that mobileer was referring to earlier and am using it in place of an OQO 02 1.5GHZ “best” model that I would like to sell, possibly through this website – as I don’t always use them on a regular basis, one battery died and I had to get a new one, wasn’t expecting the battery to go that quickly!
My ideal would be a Blackberry Playbook sized Win7 Pro or above slate with long battery life. Most on the market are too heavy or battery life is too short.